Talk:List of oldest universities in continuous operation

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

Higher education

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Higher education, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of higher education, universities, and colleges on Wikipedia. Please visit the project page to join the discussion, and see the project's article guideline for useful advice.Higher educationWikipedia:WikiProject Higher educationTemplate:WikiProject Higher educationHigher education articles

Europe

	Europe portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Europe, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to European topics of a cross-border nature on Wikipedia.EuropeWikipedia:WikiProject EuropeTemplate:WikiProject EuropeEurope articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Lists

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Lists, an attempt to structure and organize all list pages on Wikipedia. If you wish to help, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.ListsWikipedia:WikiProject ListsTemplate:WikiProject ListsList articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Archives

Index

Archive 1	Archive 2	Archive 3
Archive 4	Archive 5	Archive 6
Archive 7

This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by when more than 4 sections are present.

Eurocentric, are't you?

There were gigantic Buddhist academy in Bodh Gaya, India, and state-sponsored Confucius academies in the East Asia long before these Western "universities" were established - i.e., early part of the first millenium AD. Unfamiliar with the Muslim world's academic history, but I bet they too had better claim to this "earliest universities" claim given their scientific knowledge far surpassed those of Europe in the medieval time when these so-called "universities" were founded..

Euro-centric much? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.23.87.19 (talk) 23:48, 6 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Read the lead, and then if you still have questions read the talk page archives. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 07:56, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Quote from the article “To be included in the list below, the university must have been founded before 1500 in Europe or be the oldest university derived from the medieval European model in a country or region”.

so the name of the article shoud reflect correctly that “List of oldest universities in continuous operation in Europe” 216.183.209.211 (talk) 05:24, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No, and that is not what the sentence you quote says either. Jeppiz (talk) 13:24, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah this list is pretty much intentionally eurocentric, whether or not that's the right move. Check out the pages List of oldest schools and Ancient higher-learning institutions, I think they're closer to what you are imagining. Gold Broth (talk) 06:27, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Madrassas are not universities, also European scientific knowledge was superior during the Middle AgesStianwick (talk) 16:20, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

They are and your assertion is truly ignorant. How a person like you can even have an author status here. Wikipedia urgently needs to review your authorship as this is clearly a stain on its reputation. 2A00:23C8:4213:6A01:9557:B36A:3F89:FF20 (talk) 20:03, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'd agree that the Renaissance in Europe is the self-accelerating catch-up and surpassing of the Islamic world in science and technology (thanks largely to Gutenberg), but to say that Europe was ahead in science BEFORE the Renaissance is rather much of a joke. What did Charlemagne (illiterate) ever have that compared to Baghdad's House Of Wisdom flourishing at the same time? In Florence even IN the Renaissance there was an attempt to ban "Hindu-Arabic" numerals. And you absolutely can't have science as long as you have Roman numerals. It's just not possible. And why do we use an Arabic-derived word for "algebra"?2600:1700:6759:B000:60E4:4CDF:3898:2FB2 (talk) 07:15, 21 November 2023 (UTC)Christopher Lawrence Simpson[reply]

There is something suspicious about regarding "University" as a term distinct from "Institution Of Higher Learning".

I can't see that there is any reason for regarding "university" as a term distinct from "institution of higher learning" OTHER THAN to exclude non-European institutions from inclusion in the category "universities". In common English speech, "university" and "institution of higher learning" are synonymous. The difference between (on the one hand) an institution of higher learning that has "College" in its name and uses the phrase "School Of" for its subdivisions and (on the other hand) an institution of higher learning that has "University" in its name and uses the phrase "College Of" for its subdivisions is pretty much nil. The former (any College made of Schools) is just one that hasn't gotten around to changing its name yet, or is being blocked from doing so by political machinations from one or more institutions of higher learning in the same state who DO have the word "University" in their name and want to limit its use. There's no MATERIAL difference between the words "College" and "University" that applies consistently all over the U.S.A.. And, except where a "College" is a component of a University, both "College" and "University" are synonyms for "institution of higher learning".

Now, if there IS something different between (on the one hand) European institutions of higher learning that early on called themselves "Universities" and (on the other hand) non-European institutions of higher learning, SPELL THAT OUT. (I mean, a difference OTHER than simply BEING European. I meant some difference in the way they operated or the way they achieved results. Some REAL difference, not just an area of the world where they were located.) I'm afraid that I believe that the reason I'm not finding the differences spelled out anywhere is that it's all just a ruse to maintain an entirely artificial separation between European and non-European institutions, a difference based ONLY on location while pretending to be based on something else. I find nothing but circular reasoning: "Why is that madrasah in Morocco not a university?" is answered with "because it's not European". But why should the area where something is located be a determinant in whether it's called "a university" or not? Why should we agree to definitions that say "If it's in Europe it's a university but if it's not in Europe it's not a university"?2600:1700:6759:B000:60E4:4CDF:3898:2FB2 (talk) 07:39, 21 November 2023 (UTC)Christopher Lawrence Simpson[reply]

In most countries, the distinction is clearer than in the US. The meaning of university as used by academic historians has been discussed before, and does not follow the distinction you claim. You should note that places like Bologna and Oxford as well as many Cathedral schools are not considered by historians to have been universities from their date of foundation but only from when they were organised as universities, which make it clear that the definition is not, as you claim, because they are in Europe. Robminchin (talk) 17:07, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nalanda University

Nalanda University was one of the first universities in the world, founded in the 5th Century BC, and reported to have been visited by the Buddha during his lifetime. At its peak, in the 7th century AD, Nalanda held some 10,000 students and 2000 teachers when it was visited by the Chinese scholar Xuanzang.

Historical studies indicate that the University of Nalanda was established during the reign of the Gupta emperorKumaragupta. Both Xuanzang and Prajñavarman cite him as the founder, as does a seal discovered at the site. 212.12.183.218 (talk) 10:40, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Incorrect/missing information

The University of al-Qarawiyyin in Fez, Morocco, was founded in 859 AD by Fatima al-Fihri, a Muslim woman of Arab descent. Known for her dedication to education and the community, Fatima used her inheritance to establish the institution as a madrasa, which evolved into a full university over the centuries. It remains the oldest continuously operating, degree-granting university in the world, recognized by UNESCO and the Guinness World Records. 3KBS (talk) 02:48, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@3KBS I did spot University of al-Qarawiyyin in the (incredibly) long list. I think this topic has been discussed above: Talk:List_of_oldest_universities_in_continuous_operation#Al_Qarawiyyin,_Al_Azhar,_Sankore Commander Keane (talk) 03:10, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]