Jump to content

Talk:Croix de Guerre

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

'France and Belgium'

[edit]

|a. There is no such country as the above. They are two separate sovereign states and therefore two discrete issuing authorities. Isn't the combination either sloppy or contemptuous, or possibly both?

|b. The Distinguished Service Cross, Distinguished Service Medal & Distinguished Flying Cross all have the same name and might be lumped together in one article on the same principle.

|c. Like the above medals, the 'War Cross' medals are different. Yes, they have a common basis, but as Belgium is a kingdom, the large crown immediately distinguishes the two.

|d. Similarly, the 'War Cross' ribbons are different too.

|

|e. Unlike the Anglo-American awards above, a third distinction for the 'War Cross' is the name: most Belgians would refer to the Belgian medal, at least, as the Oorlogskruis (as noted in the article) and not the Croix de Guerre. The use of French words seems to be the main rationale for the combination. So, on this principle, at least the word Oorlogskruis should merit a separate entry. ('War Cross' is a term used by several other nations too: eg. Krigskorset). There seems no consistency in the logic.

|f. Keep this article for the French award and separate out the Belgian and Luxembourg awards. This would improve the clarity of all the resulting articles. Protozoon (talk) 20:44, 31 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

U.S. Army soldiers were awarded the French and Belgian "Croix de Guerre avec Palme" (Croix de Guerre with Palm) not a "Croix de guerre avec palme" (Croix de guerre with palm); "Croix de guerre" is inncorrect. "Croix de Guerre avec Palme" appears in foreign military award manuals and on foreign award citations.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.165.84.140 (talk) 01:24, 6 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Husnock -- You incorrectly reverted the page on the basis that there are no modern day units that are currently authorized to wear the French Fourragere won for three Croix de guerre. The 5th and 6th Marine Regiments, one currently part of the 1st Marine Division at Camp Pendleton, the other the 2d at Camp Lejeune, were part of the 4th Marine Brigade during WWII. The award authorization continues to today. Reference: http://www.i-mef.usmc.mil/msc/1mardiv/2BN5MAR/FOURRAGERE.htm -- Uhlek

You have in the article that present day people can wear it for World War II actions, but the reference you have states World War I actions. Also, in my 10 years in the Navy I have never heard of this nor I have ever seen a service record, in my work through the National Personnel Records Center, authorize a World War I decoration for wear on present day active military uniforms. The FRGE of the CDG is also not listed in any uniform regulations manual as an authorized decoration except for retired or discharged World War II personnel. Im not saying that you're not being truthful, but I think this is something unoffical that some USMC units might do.

Sorry for the typo. One too many Is. It's not awarded to an individual, it's a unit award that is only worn by active members of that unit, so it's not referenced in an individual's SRB. Pulled up the MCO, it's MCP P1020.34G, section 5302:

5302. FOURRAGERE. (See fig. 5-6.) Figure Hyperlink: Fig 5-7 Wearing of Fourragere. 1. The Fourragere was awarded by the French Ministry of War to those units which were cited two or more times in the French Orders of the Army, and when awarded became part of the cited unit's uniform. 2. The 5th and 6th Marine Regiments were so cited during World War I, and therefore, all Marines serving in these units are authorized to wear the Fourragere. 3. Marines entitled to wear the Fourragere will wear it on all uniform service and dress coats/jackets when medals or ribbons are prescribed. The Fourragere will not be worn on the tanker jacket or the AWC. 4. The Fourragere will have a pencil attachment with a polished brass or black tip, will be of the same shades as the ribbon of the Croix de Guerre Medal, and will conform to applicable military specifications per direction from CMC (MMAA). 5. The Fourragere will be worn over the left shoulder with the left arm passing through the large loop of the cord; the small loop will engage the button under the shoulder strap, except on the enlisted men's blue dress coat when it will engage the button above the strap, and the metal pencil attachment will hang naturally to the front.

Hyperlink: http://www.marcorsyscom.usmc.mil/sites/mcub/PAGES/Uniform%20Regs%20Chapters/Chapter%205_files%5CChapter%205.htm

I'm a former Marine, used to be assigned to 2/10, the fire support battalion for 6th Marines at Lejeune. Still work with the Corps at Quantico on a project that shall remain unnamed, for it often incurs the wrath of sailors and Marines who hear about it. ;) It's still actively worn. --Uhlek

Just to keep you informed, the 369th Sustainment Brigade, New York Army National Guard is authorized to wear the World War One French Fourragere. They were awarded a Unit Croix De Guerre, and each individual member at the time was awarded an individual Croix De Guerre. How do I know? I retired from the unit, and they won it as the 369th Infantry Regiment while serving with the 4th French Army in 1917 and 1918. I wore one on my Dress Greens from 1976 through 1994. - SSG Cornelius Seon (US Army, Retired) (talk) 04:02, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
To the best of my knowledge and research, the 45th Infantry Brigade is not authorized a Fourragere. While the 45th Division was awarded the Croix de Guerre during WWII, the Fourragere requires a subsequent "award" (mention in the despatches). The article states that the 45th was mentioned three times and during WWI--there was no US 45th Division in WWI. I've indicated the article that this needs a citation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RTO Trainer (talk • contribs) 12:45, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Any WW2 veteran living or deceased who was awarded the French Fourragge (unit decoration) is entitled to the "fourragere" and the "Croix de Guerre avec Palme" (Croix de Guerre with Palm). — Preceding unsigned comment added by YahwehSaves (talk • contribs) 07:24, 5 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Modern Day United States Issuance

[edit]

For anyone who is interested I just uncovered the complete list of US winners of WWI CDG. List issued by GCS Marsh in 1919. Plan on publishing soon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lordhavlock (talk • contribs) 00:22, 26 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I did some further checking on this from a variety of sources at the National Personnel Records Center. I can say for certian that there are absoluetly no records of modern day presentations of the Croix de guerre to U.S. service members that I know about. People who are assigned to units which earned the award in WWI and WWII are probably permitted to wear it ceremonially, that is not in question. However, in over 3 - 5 hundred records reviewed from 1948 to the present, not one, especially on a DD Form 214, listed the Croix de guerre as an authorized award.

So, to clear up the point I completely believe that it is an award worn by modern day units. But, as an official award entered into service records the evidence is against this. -Husnock 26Feb05

Any World War II veteran whose unit at the time of the award in WW2 was awarded the French Fourragerre is entitled to the French Croix de Guerre with Palm ("Croix de Guerre avec Palme") and the French Fourragerre ("fourragere") and that entered on their service records (on DD-215).
All veterans who helped liberate France in WW2 were also entitled to the French Liberation Medal.
All living veterans who helped liberate France in WW2 are currently being awarded the French Legion of Honor by France (must apply to France embassy with some kind of proof).

[1]

Can anyone elaborate on this? Does this mean if someone served with a unit when it received the fourragere, they are also have the right to wear the medal? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.6.9.8 (talk) 04:37, 4 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[2]Alvin M Hasty (talk) 08:09, 29 November 2015 (UTC) Alvin M Hasty (Mitch Hasty)[reply]

References

  1. ^ ny World War II veteran whose unit at the time of the award in WW2 was awarded the French Fourragerre is entitled to the French Croix de Guerre with Palm ("Croix de Guerre avec Palme") and the French Fourragerre ("fourragere") and that entered on their service records (on DD-215).
  2. ^ There were at least eight maybe more individuals from 5th Special Forces Group ODA 596 awarded the CDG including myself from the 1990-1991 Gulf War. Contact me for further info if you so desire. Thanks.

Notable recipients

[edit]

Bob Hoover, American fighter pilot, WWII, was a recipient according to this wiki: ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Hoover ) Lrenh (talk) 04:00, 5 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Julia Catlin Park Depew Taufflieb was the first American female to receive this award in 1917 in her efforts in the First World War for turning her Chateau d'Annel into a 300 bed hospital on the front line. She was awarded the Legion of Honor as well.


Should Audie Murphy be mentioned as a recipient? Not sure.

But I am seeking an answer to this question:

Has a Croix de Guerre ever giving to a "Hmong" (soldier) in Laos by the French Government (Legionaire) in any time during the history of the indochina history and its many conflicts?

thank you.

A Hmong-American kid

Well, the croix de guerre is a french military award : as you wrote it, this one is given by the french government ; but only if one person (soldier, non commissioned officers, officer or a civilian) contributed to defend the french army line on the combat area. So your ancestor may have recieved this medal if his allegiance went to the french army during one concerned conflict : WW I ou WW II for example... The english wikipedia may need some clean up about the "croix de guerre" indeed we make easily the difference between the croix de guerre 1914-1918 or 1939-1945 or TOE... For the Indochinia conflict, the only croix de guerre he may have been granted is the "Croix de guerre des TOE"... the two one else concerns former conflicts. Moreover, the military award was created to commemore heroic acts with star (bronze, silver,... ) or palm according to the heroic degree... In this way, the croix de guerre is normally always given with an acknowlegment... That's all I can say about this subject. I hope I gave you the answer you were looking for.
Sincerily user:Paris75000 11:14, 25 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Audie Murphy was awarded the French "Croix de Guerre avec Palme" (Croix de Guerre with Palm) 3 times for WW2 (Croix de Guerre with 3 Palms).
The 3rd Infantry Division (Murphy) received the French "Croix de Guerre avec Palme" (Croix de Guerre with Palm) with the French Fourragerre ("fourragere"),
 one of these "Croix de Guerre avec Palme" is the unit award awarded to the 3rd Inf. Div. members (with the fourragere-unit award)
FYI: Foreign decorations are below U.S. military awards in order of precedence and may have been awarded for the same action an American decoration was awarded for. — Preceding unsigned comment added by YahwehSaves (talk • contribs) 06:25, 5 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

with Palme?

[edit]

Various officers of the Royal Air Force (and I imagine other British officers) were awarded this award "with Palme" - does anyone know what that signified? Gustav von Humpelschmumpel 10:48, 25 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, a palm degree concerns an acknowledgement for people who has been cited at the army level, and is in fact the french higher acknowledgement level for a croix de guerre... the other degrees are much more lower :
  • a bronze star for those who had been cited at the regiment or brigade level.
  • a silver star, for those who had been cited at the division level.
  • a silver gilt star for those who had been cited at the corps level.
Sincerily user:Paris75000 11:19, 25 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It means they are decorated by the French Armed Forces with the French Croix de Guerre with Palm. — Preceding unsigned comment added by YahwehSaves (talk • contribs) 06:30, 5 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Upcased Guerre

[edit]

11-June-2007 (revised 12Jun07): In the style of American English medals, the French word "guerre" is usually displayed as uppercase in "Croix de Guerre" (even in many French webpages), although the French usage is about 50% lowercase ("Croix de guerre"). I have converted most of the English Wikipedia article to use the upcased form. Supporting the upcased title are the 668 wikilinks: 62% to upcased "Croix de Guerre" and many to "French Croix de Guerre" (with perhaps 34% of wikilinks to lowercase "Croix de guerre"). Considering that French uses much lowercase, such as months ("avril"), I was shocked to find about half the French webpages using the upcased form (in the French language), but not upcased "palme" (as in Croix de Guerre avec palme). Overall, I suggest focusing the English usage as upcased "Guerre" whether or not the article gets moved/renamed for uppercase. There are several WP articles that redirect to the current lowercase name (such as medal abbreviation "CdeG"). -Wikid77 15:27, 12 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Argument for Upcased Guerre

[edit]

My father's Certificate (written in French) for the 1914-1918 Croix de Guerre has an upper case Guerre as do both the letter and the copy of the citation that I received from the French Ministry of Defense. Likewise, the French Association Nationale des Croix de Guerre uses the upper case Guerre.Tvbanfield (talk) 15:45, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Shouldn't the 'c', at least, be upper case? TaintedMustard (talk) 22:12, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I changed all instances of "croix" (lower-case) to "Croix" (upper-case). I didn't touch any of the instances of "guerre" or "avec palme". TaintedMustard (talk) 00:13, 7 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Article (about a military medal) is written in English. In any official military language you wouldn't write the Distinguished Service Cross as Distinguished Service cross Or call it, "the cross" . A large number of U.S. soldiers in WW2 were officialy awarded the "Croix de Guerre avec Palme" individually and or as a unit award by France (on the official French award citations) which the Article tried to avoid to continue the Wikipedia "Croix de guerre".et— Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.79.31.20 (talk) 16:21, 5 January 2012 (UTC) [reply]
It has been years since I studied French, but I remember a few grammar rules. Using French grammar rules it would be Croix de guerre. Looking at an award certificate capitalization would likely be different than one would use in prose. If you do not believe me take a look at fr:Croix de guerre. Cheers. EricSerge (talk) 02:39, 7 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Even foreign (French) military manuals and award citations spell out the correct spelling of military awards. "Palms" are military awards too. The Article is not written in French: Looks odd to see "Croix de guerre" in English instead of Croix de Guerre or croix de guerre which seems to be avoided up by calling it, "the cross". Croix de Guerre avec Palme is "capitalization"? The "avec" seems to be diliberately ignored or avoided too. Military editing of the awards shows the upper case.

WikiProject class rating

[edit]

This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 02:58, 27 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Order in List of Recipients

[edit]

I cannot see any order in this list. Is there? I suggest the obvious alphabetic by surname. P0mbal (talk) 16:41, 27 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Recipients: Humans or People?

[edit]

I have changed from 'Humans' (fine in biological context), to 'People' (socio-political), and it looks good to me. The 'Animal' title is fine for pigeons, dogs, etc. Oh, and I did the ordering of the lists. P0mbal (talk) 23:38, 27 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Inspired Bible: man and woman (no "humans") were created.

Awards and decorations of the United states Military

[edit]

Why is that link in the See also section? This is not an american site but an international one, and I see no reason why link to american awards in an article for a french decoration. 91.67.13.189 (talk) 13:15, 11 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

File:CroixDeGuerre.jpg Nominated for Deletion

[edit]
An image used in this article, File:CroixDeGuerre.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests January 2012
What should I do?

Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.

  • If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use)
  • If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used.

This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 16:01, 6 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 10 April 2015

[edit]
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move. We have consensus that this is the more usual spelling in English. Cúchullain t/c 16:43, 15 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]


Croix de guerre → Croix de Guerre – Correct spelling. 77.56.53.183 (talk) 12:34, 10 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Croix de Guerre. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 19:07, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Notable Recipients:

[edit]

Douglas Bader: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1336319/Legend-of-Douglas-Bader-is-set-in-stone.html46.7.195.132 (talk) 10:21, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Boardwalk empire

[edit]

In season 3 episode 6 . Ging Gang Goolie. Richard Harrow picks up a fellow veterans jacket and this medal falls out 199.30.72.231 (talk) 02:34, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Croix_de_Guerre&oldid=1206828135"