Talk:John Gotti

An incredibly small article

In spite of the man's far more well known legacy, the articles of Sammy the Bull and John Gotti Jr dwarf the description here. Is this really all that John Gotti was about? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.54.7.174 (talk) 00:21, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

A Few Points

In this article there are numerous accounts of John Gotti being arrested, and being convicted, but there is no real mention of how difficult it was to ultimately convict Gotti. He was acquitted twice of his first two murder trials in the 80is last conviction was heavily influenced by the fact that the court refused to let Gotti use the lawyer he had used in the previous two trials and they had the jury switched at the last minute, rightfully fearing that jury members might be subject to bribes.

Also, the characterization of Henry Hill and Jimmy Burke as Mob King Pin's is hardly accurate, neither of them were bosses, or captians, or even made men. I assume it was put in because of their role in the film Goodfellas

--SunshineOdyssey (talk) 18:56, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

This article is weak because some editors who hate mafia/Gotti keep stacking it full of info as long as it portrays Gotti as a horrible man. If you have any sources, please drop them here. Meishern (talk) 02:25, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Career

One paragraph in this section describes how Gotti got close to boss Carlo Gambino while acting as Capo - the very next paragaph describes how he usurps boss Paul Castellano. Just a small note, the attack on Castellano was not an ambush, it was closer to an early drive-by, they drove up next to him, shot him, and drove off never getting out of the car. There is nothing inbetween to inform that reader that Gambino had died in 1976 and Castellano was his successor. It could be confusing for readers with no prior research. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.16.229.138 (talk) 00:32, 18 February 2007 (UTC).

GOOD PHOTO

I was just about to say that this photo freakin blows. Nobody can recognize this person by this photo. I'm not trying to represent a reputed mob boss, I am just saying that for encyclopedic purposes it is hard to recognize the person!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.201.193.254 (talk) 17:02, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Absolutely. This is not even remotely representative of him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.115.119.79 (talk) 22:40, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

We do need a photo that is representative of him during the majority of his prison photo as the lead in to his article, or Lenin's corpse to his. 216.7.243.253 (talk) 17:00, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

This was his most recent photo. That was how he was living his life for the last several years. This only upsets his admirers/ men with crushes on him. --Don't glamorize (talk) 19:15, 3 June 2009 (UTC)Don't glamorize

I knew somebody would pull the "glamorize" card. We are not trying to glamorize some mobster, but we are trying to write an academic article. What's with some people and the negativity, we are all in good faith here. There's always one or two people with everything that try to twist up something and offer the negativity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.201.193.254 (talk) 00:08, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Actually, the main photo of a deceased individual is supposed to be representative of the subject when they were most publicly relevant. This is the reason why, for example, Marlon Brando's main photo is a screencap from his acting heyday and not a photo of him as a fat old man. If "last known photo" was the applicable standard, Wikipedia would be filled with nothing but pictures of shriveled up, unrecognizable old men and women. A better picture is needed here.-PassionoftheDamon (talk) 05:04, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

This article needs to show Gotti when he was in his prime as a mobster, and not a few days before his death. (Why don't we post a photo of Patrick Swayze the way he looks now, dying of cancer, instead of how he looked healthy.) The majority of the article is regarding the 1970-80s. Are we going to start publishing photos of famous individuals on their death beds now? This photo makes him look like some senile old man who forgot to wear dentures. How can anyone believe he ran the NYC underworld? I will look for a normal PD photo. Meishern (talk) 13:12, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Please don't compare Marlon Brando and John Gotti

--Don't glamorize (talk) 19:26, 16 June 2009 (UTC)Don't glamorize

Early Life

Someone placed the following quotes under early life:

   "I took garbage Gotti blood and contaminated it with DiGiorgio blood."

[1] Gotti was also recorded on video as saying to his daughter Victoria

   "I'm not your father or John's father or these kids's grandfather."

[2]

They are quotes recorded in the last 5-7 years of his life during a prison visit with his daughter/brother/grandson. The last quote is quite a bit out of context too, if the whole paragraph of the transcript is read. I can't figure out how they relate to John Gotti's early life. I will move them somewhere else. Meishern (talk) 13:43, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

It did not occur 'many times in many videos'. It was 1 prison visit that lasted 1 hour and was broken up into multiple parts by the website you are using as a source. Don't glamorize, you obviously have strong, negative feelings about John Gotti. This is an encyclopedia. Perhaps you should stay away from editing articles about topics where your emotions skew the content. Meishern (talk) 01:32, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Update

I will try to rewrite the middle portion of this article using sources. Based on reading what's here, it is hard to understand how this man became the most famous gangster of the 1980-90s. After reading this biased article, people may come away with an impression that this man could barely tie his own shoes. If he was such a moron, why was he allowed to take over the biggest NYC mafia family by thousands of its hardened criminal members? Meishern (talk) 13:37, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Improved Picture!

I just wanted to say that the picture is much better. If someone is about to die, and has a mutilated face, it is hard to recognize them, this picture at least is a representative photo for academic purposes.

If anyone does change the picture again though, there are some excellent more high resolution looking photos by Time Magazine. Please do a Google/Yahoo search and click on show large or wallpaper size, and high res Time Magazine photos will come up of him walking outside with Jackie and Pete, as well as outside the Ravenite possibly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.201.193.254 (talk) 23:57, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Time magazine photo is copyrighted. We can't use it without permission. Meishern (talk) 09:52, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Can we use the Time magazine photo with permission? I would highly doubt that Time would care if we asked to use a web-version of the picture. If it is web-version, it probably isn't the best one they have, and they might not care. This is an academic article, and we would attribute all rights to their magazine if needed. I mean Time seems to be a supporter of eduction, I wouldn't see how they would object. It would be one thing if we got a top quality high res photo that was good enough to use on merchandise or something, but if it is a web photo for the encyclopedia, we wouldn't bother distributing it, and if we put it anywhere except this page, we can accept the penalty, but it wouldn't be necessary because nobody would bother doing that. So is it possible to get those? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.201.193.254 (talk) 05:17, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

You can try contacting Time Magazine and asking them. The photographer who took the photo, Time Magazine and overall owner of the photo need to sign notarized release statements. It's a huge hassle especially dealing with a conglomerate like Time. I am almost 100% sure that they will refuse to sign over a good photo of John Gotti that they are making royalties with into public domain use. The best thing to do, is look under google image search, and find a private photo of Gotti (in restaurant, etc), and see if the owner would be willing to sign it over into public domain. Contacting Victoria Gotti may be a good idea too. She has a website. Good luck! Meishern (talk) 12:52, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

More Needed in Article

Looking at Salvatore Gravano's article this article should be at least that long. This article is just a small sentence in comparison to his article, and John's story being the boss should have just as much if not a lot more. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.201.193.254 (talk) 00:03, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree. The problem is that there was quite a lot of vandalism on this page in the past. John Gotti hurt a lot of people in his line of work, and the descendants of his victims (as well as others) skewed this article. There are many books thicker than the unabridged bible with commentary written about Gotti, which makes it even more strange why this article is so skimpy. Meishern (talk) 12:58, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Sheepshead Bay or East NY

So where did his family move when he was 12 years old? I am tired of seeing endless revisions. I think its East NY, since that's where he operated later around JFK airport. Any references available? Meishern (talk) 15:40, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Fire Works Show

YoOo wUz r3aLLi Gud yOo?! We gotta add a section about da fire works display he put on every year in howard beach, ny bro. Each 4th of July a bunch of families would come out and watch his fire works going off. It was a better show then the one Macy's put on and da cops were always paid off so they never came through to shut it down. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BiGg3st iTaLiAn0 (talk • contribs) 17:22, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

If you look through the edit history from 2006-present this page has been vandalised numerous times.(Freejohngotti (talk) 07:41, 6 December 2010 (UTC))

Throat cancer

Gotti died of throat cancer, but how did he get it? Did he smoke cigarettes??? The article doesn't make any mention one way or the other. That's probably the most common way to get throat cancer (maybe he smoked cigars all the time???). Thanks in advance to anybody who knows.

He was indeed and avid cigar smoker, which was probably the cause of his cancer.

Acting Capo

I've been reading through Capeci and Mustain's Gotti: Rise and Fall, and they're saying he never got formally promoted to Capo of the Bergin crew by Castellano (P 132). What do other sources say? --Lenin and McCarthy | (Complain here) 04:31, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Blowing up Gotti

There is a series of recorded video from prison. Is it John Gotti talking to various family members. They knew they were being recorded, as it is in prison. These are a few of the quotes:

• "Being a nigger is embarrassment, being John Gotti's grandson is an honor",
• "Imitating all these coons...imitate niggers...your president's a piece of crap" and
• "I'm not your father or John's father or these kids's grandfather."

Some people wanted more verifiability of these quotes, so I posted the videos here.

• Article from Smoking Gun: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/blowing-gotti
• Blowing up Gotti - Episode 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzK0FlegyTE
• Blowing up Gotti - Episode 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwFhKcu2uu8
• Blowing up Gotti - Episode 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIojihabMQc
• Blowing up Gotti - Episode 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC_GAqI6N9Q
• Blowing up Gotti - Episode 5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDhCRf83oxk
• Blowing up Gotti - Episode 6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9BAyq8gtnc

--GottiQuotes (talk) 13:12, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

These aren't relevant to the article, youtube is not a valid reference and I am not sure that we accept the smokinggun as one either. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 13:30, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

There are videos taken in a Federal Prison that have both audio and video. They are reliable, notable and a valid reference. I guess you don't like what he says on there as you really want them taken down.

--GottiQuotes (talk) 14:16, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

I'm just questioning why you are adding it. i don't care what he said one way or another, my problem is that it isn't adding to the article, there is no context how it's important. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 16:35, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

I'd like to mow what process you are using to choose the quotes. It seems you are giving undue weight to some elements of the videos over others. Flat Out let's discuss it 10:49, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

They are 3 quotes out of long wikipedia article. They don't seem like "undue weight", they are mentioned as they are noteworthy, there is not a whole section on them. Although they are noteworthy for everyone, they are especially noteworthy for people of color and minorities. --GottiQuotes (talk) 13:04, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

No, I mean why did you select those quotes out of the entire video. Flat Out let's discuss it 13:20, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

How is it noteworthy for everyone, did it add to his notability either way? The problem is it sounds like a WP:COATRACK addition, now if there was a case adn he said that in connection to a case I'd agree one hundred percent but on their own it's non sequitor to the article. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 15:11, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Why not add the videos? They are clearly noteworthy because they provide intimate insight into a person who rarely allowed it. Why are you so resistant to adding it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Siihb (talk • contribs) 08:37, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

I find it strange that the quotes and the videos are not in the main article. They give insight into the man. They seem to be kept out because political correctness and personal opinions. Wikipedia and its readers are the losers in such a situation.Betathetapi545 (talk) 13:57, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

Who are the HIS & HIM?

quote: "The team botched their attempt to abduct McBratney at a Staten Island bar, and Galione shot McBratney dead when his accomplices managed to restrain him." The antecedents of these pronouns are unclear. Does this mean, "Galione shot McBratney dead when McBratney's accomomplices managed to restrain McBratney"??? Similarly the antecedent of his is unclear in the word string, "Five of Krieger and Cardinale's intended six witnesses were ruled irrelevant or extraneous, leaving only Gotti's tax attorney Murray Appleman to testify on his behalf. Does this mean to say, "Five of Krieger and Cardinale's intended six witnesses were ruled irrelevant or extraneous, leaving only Gotti's tax attorney Murray Appleman to testify on Appleman's behalf"???(EnochBethany (talk) 19:49, 13 June 2015 (UTC))

Who or what is "LCE"?

In the first paragraph of the article, we read, "...Gotti and his brothers and LCE grew up in poverty..." Would someone please clarify who or what "LCE" is? There's not antecedent in the text, and though I've searched the web, I haven't found anything that makes sense, in this context.

Best regards, theBaron0530

TheBaron0530 (talk) 21:12, 10 November 2015 (UTC)theBaron0530

Was Gotti's wife married before she and he married? And had a kid? The FBI FOIA seems to indicate so?

https://vault.fbi.gov/john-joseph-gotti-jr/john-joseph-gotti-jr-part-01-of-10/view

Page 6 says he married an italian girl who was previously married and had a child by a previous relationship. Page 7 says parents had a falling out with Gotti when he got married 2 or 3 years ago (reference is from October 64 so timeline fits)

Thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Siihb (talk • contribs) 06:10, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

"racketeering" preview broken on chrome?

When I mouse over the word "racketeering" in the summary of the article, the preview that shows of the article is broken. Not sure if its me though, does anyone else have this issue on chrome? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xwedodah (talk • contribs) 07:46, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

I'm having no issue. Can you specify which link you're looking at? Describe exactly where it is in the article. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 16:02, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

@Vaselineeeeeeee

"As this fear continued to grow, and amidst growing dissent over the leadership of the crime family, Gotti organized the murder of Castellano in December 1985 and took over the family shortly thereafter, leaving Gotti as the boss of what has been described as America's most powerful crime syndicate, and one that made hundreds of millions of dollars a year from racketeering, hijacking, loan sharking, drug trafficking, bookmaking, prostitution, extortion, pornography, illegal gambling and other criminal activities. "

I've bolded the word in question, its in the second paragraph. The paragraph starts with "early in his criminal career" Xwedodah (talk) 07:31, 24 December 2019 (UTC) Xwedodah 07:31, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

That racketeering link redirects me to Racket (crime) - the appropriate destination. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 16:20, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

It's not that the link is broken, its the preview of the link. Here, I took a screenshot (https://imgur.com/a/QK3I131). Xwedodah (talk) 00:45, 25 December 2019 (UTC)XwedodahXwedodah (talk) 00:45, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

That's strange, the preview link works for me "A racket, according to the current...". Usually that preview error only shows if an article doesn't have a lead. Does every preview link not work for you? You could post the {{Help}} template on your talk page and explain your issue and another Wikipedian may be able to better help you. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 03:19, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:John Gotti/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jaguar (talk · contribs) 21:13, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

I'll get to this soon, within a couple of days... ♦ jaguar 21:13, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

• Comment: As someone who worked on this article a few years ago I know it's still missing an explanation of the bug in the apartment above the Ravenite that did John in, as well as Gravano's promotion to underboss. Both took place around the time of the "Assault aquittal" section. Don't think I'll have the time to add this myself. --Lenin and McCarthy | (Complain here) 06:25, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

@Lenin and McCarthy: Thanks for the comment Lenin - I should've pinged you as well about this before. I'll try and find some info on this myself. Jaguar is fairly busy right now so it'll take him several days to get to this so in the mean time, do you have any preliminary sources where I can find this info before I go digging? Thanks, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 15:09, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Can't really think of anything beyond the books already cited. --Lenin and McCarthy | (Complain here) 17:47, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

@Lenin and McCarthy: I added a couple sentences about Gravano's promotion and info about the bug. Let me know if this is satisfactory. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 18:05, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Lead

• "According to Sammy Gravano, Gotti earned between $5–20 million per year during his tenure as Gambino boss" - Gravano is already linked and introduced nicely in the beginning of the last paragraph. I think it would be safe to remove this part of the sentence, since Gotti's earnings is backed up by a citation here  Done

Early life

• " His parents were born in New York, but is presumed that their parents were from San Giuseppe Vesuviano" - is this referring to Gotti's grandparents? If so, try something like Gotti's parents were born in New York, but is presumed that his grandparents were from San Giuseppe Vesuviano, in the province of Naples, Italy, where they were married and lived for some time  Done
• " Eugene "Gene" Gotti was initiated before John due to John's incarceration," - close repetition, replace with 'his'  Done

Gambino crime family

• " benefit from Castellano's focus on white collar businesses." - link white-collar worker  Done
• "The Gottis were on vacation in Florida at the time, but Gotti is still presumed to have ordered the killing." - there's a citations needed tag here  Done
• "Gotti was also rumored to be expanding into drug dealing, a lucrative trade Castellano had banned." - this part doesn't have a citation  Done

Apologies for the break here, I'll come back and finish the review in a couple of hours. ♦ jaguar 19:27, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, I had to rush off! Finishing the review now:

Gambino crime family

• "Gotti also had an economic interest: he had a running beef with Castellano" - I know this is faithful language but it reads unencyclopaedic, how about something like 'dispute' or 'conflict'  Done
• The fifth and sixth paragraphs in the Taking over the Gambino family could perhaps be merged to improve flow  Done
• "The evening of the meeting, when the boss and underboss arrived, they were ambushed and shot dead by assassins under Gotti's command." - this reads choppy. Try Both the boss and underboss were ambushed and shot dead by assassins under Gotti's command when they arrived at the meeting in the evening., or something similar  Done

Crime boss

• "testified that Giacalone offered him drugs and her panties as a masturbation aid" - unencyclopaedic; underwear  Done
• "While Gotti himself had escaped conviction, his associates were not so lucky" - informal  Done "not as fortunate"

Thanks for you patience. That's all I have for this review, it's in overall good shape and I enjoyed reading through it. I caught a few minor things with the prose, but they could easily be fixed. The references also all look good now. Once that's all out of the way I'll be happy to promote. I'll get to reviewing the other two GANs tomorrow, by the way. ♦ jaguar 22:02, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

@Jaguar: Done, thanks. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 22:12, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Let's promote this. ♦ jaguar 22:21, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Details that could be corrected

Henry Sentner lured Carlo Gambino's son to where he could kill him to cancel a debt, then tried to get a ransom as an afterthought. He was not part of the kidnapping scheme with McBratney, and Gotti was sent to get McBratney over genuine kidnappings that McBratney was involved in.

It is very far fetched that Gotti had anything to do with the Lufthansa robbery and the ref given says Gotti killed Tommy DeSimone, which is ludicrous.

"Gotti surrendered to federal authorities to serve his prison time on December 14, 1992" Makes it sound like in a $1000 suit Gotti walked up to USP Marion (where the judge ordered he serve the sentence) and knocked on the door asking to start his life without possibility of parole bid of 23 hours a day in his cell. Gotti was of course in pretrial detention, what is called jail, for the two years before starting his prison sentence. There ought to be more of just how long the so called Teflon Don spent in jail on charges he was found not guilty of during his five years as boss before he was arrested in 1990. I think it ought to be made clear that Gotti being in his cell for 23 hrs a day was due to the regime in USP Marion at that time, which applied to all their prisoners. It was hardly solitary because Gotti was attacked on a walkway by another prisoner, Walter Johnson. Furthermore, after Johnson was released he murdered a NY Transit cop so this was no ordinary convict even for USP Marion which had the worst of the worst in the federal system. Court testimony was that Barry Byron Mills the Federal AB leader was in Marion, and was disappointed in the lack of help with his legal appeals that Gotti came through with, and so vetoed a hit on Johnson for Gotti.Overagainst (talk) 23:51, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Be WP:BOLD. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 00:14, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Your first point needs a source, otherwise, what he said. Lenin and McCarthy | (Complain here) 01:56, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

music addition

referenced in 2019 sleepy hallow mentions john gatti in the song “dis summah 2600:4041:5B03:7400:8004:9810:457F:A99C (talk) 03:01, 8 March 2023 (UTC)