Talk:Southern rock

Notable,what?

I think someone should delete the paragraph titled notable songs. First because it really misses notable songs and there are some that nobody would ever to expect But mainly because it's only an opinion, nothing more, based an author tastes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.51.15.20 (talk) 12:03, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Sweet Home Alabama

Also Lynyrd Skynyrd's "Sweet Home Alabama" (1973), why widely perceived as a 'redneck anthem'...also makes it clear that not all white southerners approved of George Wallace's views.

How so? It's pro-Wallace, contrasting Wallace, who had run for president, to Nixon, then involved in the Watergate scandal. Josh Cherry 16:23, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Given that Ronnie Van Zandt said, "We wrote Alabama as a joke. We didn't even think about it-the words just came out that way. We just laughed like hell, and said 'Ain't that funny'..." I think it is a bit presumptuous to say it is either pro- or anti-Wallace.

OK, so do you agree that the article shouldn't say that it makes it clear that not all white southerners approved of George Wallace's views? Josh Cherry 16:51, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Sorry I forgot to sign my previous post. Yes, I would agree with that. Holford 20:39, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Is their a real need to have proof that skynyrd his an influence on kid rock who said their need to be a citation isnt it obvious he covers most of their catalog in concerts for god sakes and if isnt wearing his wifebeater hes wearing either a skynyrd or a seger shirt.

Cleanup

I've completed the cleanup requested of this article. Wasted Time R 20:20, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Blues Rock, Country Rock and Southern Rock

Discusion below copied from Talk:Country rock:

Is there any meaningful difference between "country rock" and Southern rock? Tuf-Kat 06:12, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)

Yeah. Country rock is a lot more country. Gram Parsons is country rock, Lynryd Skynyrd are Southern rock. They don't sound all that similar. Naturally there's a crossover : Little Feat, Commander Cody et al. Country rock tends to be song and vocal based -- country songs with a rockier arrangement, Southern Rock are mainly rock songs with a countrified arrangement and harmony. Southern rock thinks nothing of filling entire sides of a double album with instrumental jams (Hey, the Allman Brothers Band, this means YOU!)

Southern Rock is arguably a fusion of country rock with blues rock, with a lyrical emphasis on Southern culture. Of course, all three subgenres are diverse and tend to overlap. Heck, the Marshall Tucker Band was countrier than most of what gets played on country radio these days. Just my 2¢. Archola 01:03, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

I believe all three of these "sub-genres" tended to split more by the late 70's. To me, "Country Rock" and "Southern Rock" are interchangeable. The modern belief about the difference between "Country" and "Southern" is that Southern is harder edged, while Country is lighter. Another argument I've heard is that Country Rock is "Southern Rock that's not from the South." However, in the beginning days of Poco (A Georgia band whom I consider quintessential Southern Rock, and the start of it all), it was known as "Roots Rock." Roots Rock purposely avoided the psychadelic Frisco/Liverpool sound of the time, and is a mixture of country, blues, and Rock n' Roll. California bands CCR, CSNY, The Byrds, & The Grateful Dead all jumped in on it, and Roots Rock was born. I honestly cannot tell the difference between Country Rock and Southern Rock (and differentiating types of music due to their amp volume is ridiculous), so I just refer to it all as "Southern Rock". They all jam the same, and are just as easy to get into. Rock on! X24actor (talk) 21:03, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

The earlier you go, the harder it is to differentiate between these three sub-genres. The Allman Brothers, an essental Southern Rock band, sounds just like blues-rock. The Marshal Tucker Band, as someone said previoulsy, sounds more like Country than most country today. I like to merge it all into the Southern Rock category, and not think to hard about the minimal differences. Allman Brothers, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Tom Petty, Poco, The Band, Creedence, JJ Cale, Dr. John, Fats Domino, Charlie Daniels, Marshall Tucker, The Doobs. Even though these guys aren't all from the South, I still think of them as "Southern Rock". X24actor (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 21:27, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

There is a difference. I think Country Rock is different from Southern Rock because not all music from the south is country and they sound different. Its more of a modern term. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.152.106.163 (talk) 02:58, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm not an expert in these styles of music. Which means you should listen to me-- this is an encyclopedia after all. I've read this article and have not come away with any understanding of what Southern rock is. Or rather, I'd say it's rock played by bands from the South that sing using a regional accent and play songs that are about life in the South. In other words, it's really about the identity of the artists rather than the music they create. And that seems like a lazy way of looking at music.

Tom Petty

Do 'Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers' deserve to be listed in this article? It sounds like Southern rock to me and he is from Gainesville, FL.

I'd say not - he shows trace influences, but only in random moments and I'm not sure how influential he's been in turn (on that subgenre, I mean). I think it's probably a case of his being from the South, so his music is accidentally Southern-flavored at times, but it's not his 'thing' to do Southern Rock.

No. Petty is hard to categorize, and he is featured in Heartland rock, but Southern rock is a real stretch. Wasted Time R 23:34, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I consider Tom Petty quintessential Southern Rock. My family hails from the south, so I know a lot about the Rock and Roll culture. His music is certainly not accidentally Southern-flavored. He's a rebel and proud of it, but he also happens to be a hippie. His music definately has a distict Florida sound to it, and when you mix Southern Rock with Florida & hippies, you get Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. There was a period in the late 80's/early 90's when you could argue that a lot of his hits lack that basic "southernness". But overall, Southern roots music is his thing. Just ask him. Even if it's hard to categorize Tom Petty, it's easy to accept his music as Southern Rock since that's what most of it sounds like. X24actor 20:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Just a thought, while I do agree that there is definiely a southern rock vibe in his music and would consider him at the very least influetial to the southern rock genre, Tom Petty was originally considered punk rock... funny I know... but this is the genre his music was considered at the time, look it up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ol R3D (talk • contribs) 03:29, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes. Petty is from Florida and was influenced by the greats of the genre even as he was their contemporary. As a guitarist myself, I can confirm there are riffs in the Heartbreakers' musical phrasing that could only ever occur to a southerner's ear. You could think of it as being similar to spoken memetics in which people from one part of the nation say "pop" while others from different parts say "soda". Likewise, southerners tend to approach musical phrasing with unique trills and composition which is very uniquely their own, easily "brand identifiable" to anyone who is familiar with the genre. Tom Petty's style was southern rock with 80's new wave, and late 70's punk flavoring sparsely drizzled in. As he got older, his southern roots overshadowed his other stylistic influences by a wide margin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.49.8.138 (talk) 13:52, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

ZZ Top

Someone reverted my edit back to: One notable exception was Texas' ZZ Top, who had started in 1970 and were the final band mentioned in "The South's Gonna Do It". I corrected that it wasn't the last band mentioned in the song, "The South's Gonna Do It," because Wet Willie and CDB (that counts too) were mentioned after. Didgepenguin

"Final band mentioned" means here it was the last band in the song that we're discussing in this article, not that it was the last band in the song's lyrics. Wasted Time R 18:42, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

That cant be- unless it's written incorrectly. If what your saying is true, it should say: "One notable exception was Texas' ZZ Top, who had started in 1970 and were mentioned in "The South's Gonna Do It". It is an odd sentence anyway, one not worth the confusion. Didgepenguin

I've changed the wording in the article, see if it's clearer now. Wasted Time R 17:10, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

During a 2006 Clearwater, Florida ZZ Top concert Billy Gibbons was heard to say "The same three guys...right here...The same three cords...right here...And we been doing it for 35 years". Karstdiver 05:44, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Death and Texas

DaT is stated as a southern metal band, but they have no wiki page and the link sends you to a King Of The Hill episode... Yeah... (-Kid. 17:03, 29 March 2007 (UTC))

Contrary to Baby which has a Wikipedia entry and is not included in this article ... 83.85.143.141 (talk) 20:49, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Not Eagles

Just to clarify, the Eagles are not Southern Rock, they are a Country Rock band.

Metal Genre

I think the sections should stay, I'll clean it up a little, remove dead links and bands that aren't of sourthern metal or even southern rock influence. If you want to add another band you think would fit the genre make sure that they actually do fit the genre. (-Kid. 12:16, 21 May 2007 (UTC)) Anyway yeah, don't just add a bunch of new bands. I picked some of the bands that seemed most appropriate. If you think we should make a list of all the southernmetal and southernrock influenced bands, just start a new wikipage of a list of them.

I hate to tell y'all, but Blackfoot started Southern Metal around the time of the Marauder and Siogo albums. They were in metal magazines in Britain back then. I remember. They were HUGE with metal guys in Britain back then.

You have to remember the times. Back then AC-DC and the Scorpions were considered metal. Blackfoot toured with them and gleaned new sounds to add to Southern Rock. LUKEjaywalker 10:47, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good, put it in ^.^;; haha that sounds dirty (-Kid. 04:18, 30 May 2007 (UTC))

Except that in those times in Britain the genre was always referred to as "Southern Boogie" I can fully endorse Luke Jaywalker's recollection.Jatrius (talk) 12:42, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Southern Metal = OR?

Is it me or is "southern metal" a completely original neologism? A quick Google search brings mostly results concerning metal spinners, choppers, fabricators, etc. I would consider deleting the entire section, for there are no reliable sources whatsoever that attest the existence and notability of that movement. Zouavman Le Zouave 15:56, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Clean up

Removed the metal section, it's original research and is really off topic here. Also removed the song section, it was just a list of random songs. If you can't add something tot he prose that's a pretty good sign it's not needed in the article. Ridernyc (talk) 02:12, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

merge of southern metal?

this confuses me southern metal has been redirected here, with no mention of southern metal on this page and while the old southern metal article was poorly written, its not reason to completely purge the genre from wikipedia JEMdev (talk) 03:50, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

I can see southern hardcore / metalcore is similarly going to be buried on wikipedia (especially due to modern controversy over what is and isn't hardcore / metalcore anyway...). Southern Hardcore and Southern Metal should probably be grouped together since in the end there is a lot of similarity, while they are both very distinct from original Southern Rock itself. The topic is probably worthy of adding some 80s Sludge and (the faster non-doomy types of) Stoner Metal roots since this would go some way to explaining why these genres exist and are so closely related. (come to think of it the stoner metal/ rock page is not very helpful in itself) Harshmustard (talk) 22:24, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Comment on Southern Rock's influence on Metal and Hardcore

Copied over from my talkpage:--SabreBD (talk) 20:23, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

I understand the need for sourcing but what would you consider sufficient sourcing for that edit, which only adds the genre of the artists already listed (originally incorrectly listed as metal). I did not think anyone would have a problem with it as it stands but if they did, they only need to read up on the bands listed to see they are not metal. Why and what source would be necessary? Harshmustard (talk) 20:15, 10 March 2010 (UTC)Harshmustard

Wikipedia completely relies on verifiable sources, we cannot really expect readers to do their own research on the bands: the sources need to be evidence on the page. This article is, frankly, not a good example of how that should be done, but a more desirable pattern can be seen in places like Punk rock and Rock music. It might be acceptable to simply find a source that states the hardcore origins of this sub-genre, or to demonstrate it for the bands. But the source must meet the normal requirements of all citations. If this is accurate then finding a source or sources should not be difficult. Other editors may also wish to comment.--SabreBD (talk) 20:34, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Source for what?? I think you're all missing the point of the edit. All I'm adding is the genre of the bands listed, **I'm not elaborating my theories on the origins of any genres**. It comes down to "southern rock has influenced some metal and some hardcore bands: here is a list of some hardcore and some metal bands influenced by Southern Rock". The existing article effectively says "southern rock has influenced metal: here is a list of some bands, many of which no-one would actually call metal". I never said hardcore was an influence on Southern Metal; these bands are not all part of the same genre. I completely get the need for sourcing claims but this is utter nitpicking. The casual reader, unfamiliar with metal or hardcore is not likely to need to fact-check the statement that some of the bands mentioned below are metal, others hardcore. Either they will know the difference or look at the band's pages if they're unfamiliar with them. Sourcing this line to some outside article (in fact: an article per band, that hopefully talks specifically about their genre origins and influences at some point over its duration) is just plain ridiculous considering what the actual line is informing the reader of.Harshmustard (talk) 22:19, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

To hopefully help: as an example; Every Time I Die are a hardcore band, one with influences from metal and southern rock. From this it doesn't follow that I'm implying southern metal itself has hardcore roots. ETID typically fall outside of the actual Metalcore genre in any case... Clutch, likewise, have incorporated hard rock/ groove rock/ southern rock and less extreme heavy metal influences but would not really be classed as a metal band. Hope this helps?Harshmustard (talk) 22:52, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Added reference to the label page of one of the bands listed that states clearly that they are a hardcore band; hopefully this is sufficient for anyone that would be concerned about the change from "metal" to "metal and hardcore"Harshmustard (talk) 22:58, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Edit: I changed the title of this talk topic as it is misleading- the issue isn't the hardcore origins of anything, but the influence of southern rock on metal and hardcore, separatelyHarshmustard (talk) 22:39, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Got a warning for this.. even though the topic was started by me under a different title on SabreBD's talk page and it's all stated clearly here...Harshmustard (talk) 22:58, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

YET ANOTHER CLEAN UP

This is in need of a much needed clean up, yet again. Mainly organization... as well as at least SOME clarification as to what Southern Metal is, or is not. Also, I'm thinking we need to delve more into the influences the genre has/had on Sludge, Stoner, etc... I will start some of the changes myself within the next month or so... Please help however you can... and REMEMBER, reliable sources are your friends.

• ALSO please note the List of Southern rock bands page, AS WELL AS the discussion notes there... as they are directly related to the discussions happening over here...

Yours Southernly,

Ol Red33 (talk) 18:09, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

I am working on a clean up at the moment. I will do my best to incorporate these points and and if there are any others from editors now is a good time to post them.--SabreBD (talk) 19:07, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Southern rock or southern rock

Is the "s" capitalized or not? This article has it both ways...

23haveblue (talk) 13:24, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

"Southern rock" bands that aren't southern rock

Fans of each of the bands listed in the first paragraph should listen closely to their music and check the Wikipedia pages. I'm about to remove ZZ Top from the list/page, as they're not remotely close in origins or style, going both by WP's page for the band and countless hours enjoying both Southern rock in general & ZZ Top's full discography -- I suspect they're not the only ones wrongly included. —Xyzzy☥the☥Avatar 00:04, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

First paragraph

The first paragraph of the article contains the following sentence:

Although the origin of the term Southern rock is unknown, "many people feel that these important contributors to the development of rock and roll have been minimized in rock's history."

This is an oddly phrased sentence for two reasons:

1. The term "Southern rock" obviously comes from the words "Southern" and "rock". It's not a genre name for which people would be wondering about its origin (as opposed to, say, "zydeco" or "ska").
2. There is no antecedent for the phrase "these important contributors". At this point in the article, no people have been mentioned. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 03:33, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

A top 10 is now added (Nicovanderwielen (talk) 13:40, 22 July 2020 (UTC))

Where's Blackberry Smoke?

I can't believe that people forget some new good southern rock bands like Skinny Molly or Whisky Myers, but forget BBS it's a sin!!! They're the southern rock band of the 21st Century by far.

Southern metal

FMSky thinks an article should be created for southern metal, however, I have my doubts about that. Yeah, southern metal is listed on quite a few artists page, but almost every instance I found is not backed up by a reliable source from what I could see. I googled this term, and I got only user-generated sites like last.fm, RateYourMusic, Reddit, etc, which cannot be used; And you have to Google specifically Southern metal music, otherwise, you get results for a company also known as southern metal mixed in with the music genre.

Due to this uncertainty, I decided to post this here in the hopes somebody with more expertise in finding sources can dig out reliable sources (e.g. Billboard, Allmusic, Ultimate Classic Rock, and so on) that mention this term. Once, and if, those are found, then we can work towards building an article for southern metal.

Oh yeah, what is southern metal's relationship to sludge metal, if there is any. We know bands took sludge metal from Washington and moved it south to areas like New Orleans, and sometimes added southern elements, but beyond that, idk. Help on this topic would be greatly appreciated! Moline1 (talk) 22:14, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

here are two sources i found 1, 2. PopMatters and Invisible Oranges also have sections with the tag (1, 2). I see if i can find more --FMSky (talk) 22:17, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Maybe a subsection on southern rock makes more sense though --FMSky (talk) 22:18, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

I think that would be a good idea for now. Start it there, and, if the sourcing gets stronger for a standalone page for southern metal, then we can move the content there, and add it with the new sources. Moline1 (talk) 02:05, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

I created the section on southern metal. This could benefit from improvements to make it better. Moline1 (talk) 22:11, 2 August 2024 (UTC)