Talk:Llano Estacado

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This notion that Coronado marked his trail with wooden stakes seems pretty bogus to me. Where did he get the wood? There are very few native trees on the Llano and most of them are pretty short. Seems like he could have navigated using the stars, etc. Most of the markers were of water holes, etc. H2O 11:43, 17 May 2004 (UTC)

A pile of buffalo dung near a water hole is much more plausible. H2O 12:37, 17 May 2004 (UTC)

extent of Llano Estacado; local terminology; geology

Roswell, New Mexico is definately not located on the Llano Estacado. Roswell is located in the Pecos River valley about 50 miles west of the western escarpment marking the edge of the caprock.

The "Caprock" or "Cap" is the local term most often used for the Llano Estacado. The caprock refers to a hard layer of caliche (a form of calcium carbonate) beneath the topsoil that is an important feature of the Llano Estacado and is responsible for the prominent escarpments defining its western and eastern boundaries -- the caprock layer protects the underlying layers from erosion.72.16.50.56 03:11, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Seminole???

"Important cities on the Llano include Amarillo, Lubbock, Seminole and Midland in Texas..."

How is Seminole incuded in this list? Amarillo = 183,021 population, Lubbock = 209,737, Midland = 100,378, Seminole = 5,910. I understand that population isn't everything, but cities like Odessa, Plainview, Big Spring and Levelland (among others) are larger economic and educational centers than Seminole. 72.16.85.36 06:26, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

staked/palisaded plain

Another useful cognate for the name "estacado" would be "stockade". Palisade basically means the same thing as stockade, and that would seem to be the most likely explanation for the Spanish name "Llano Esatacado"--it's the "Stockade Plain". Away with stories about sticks! Its all about the escarpments that form a wall around this steppe!

The reason for the name is that, while it was under control of the Spanish Empire, to mark the way the Spaniards used stakes (estacas) every so many leagues.

--139.47.116.162 (talk) 23:05, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

staked/palisaded plain

Another useful cognate for the name "estacado" would be "stockade". Palisade basically means the same thing as stockade, and that would seem to be the most likely explanation for the Spanish name "Llano Estacado"--it's the "Stockade Plain". Away with stories about sticks! Its all about the escarpments that form a wall around this steppe! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.19.106.240 (talk) 02:09, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Could it have been "estancado" instead of "estacado"? As in "stagnant plain"? This is worth researching. I sense that a letter was left out and it changed the meaning forever. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.72.195.12 (talk) 01:28, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Pictures

There are just too many pictures on this article now. They're impeding the flow, and some of them are redundant - we have THREE pictures of the Caprock Escarpment (north, east, and Palo Duro Canyon) and I just feel it's cluttered and unnecessary. I want to delete a picture and move/resize a couple of others, but I wanted to ask for opinions from whoever cares before I did so. Which one do you think should be deleted, or do you think it's fine the way it is? If I don't hear anything by tonight I'll go ahead and make changes. --NetherlandishYankee (talk) 13:33, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree. I have rearranged the maps and photos using the gallery function (See article). (Leaflet (talk) 15:21, 15 August 2008 (UTC))

Coronado Quote

With regard to the Coronado quote:

"I reached some plains so vast, that I did not find their limit anywhere I went, although I travelled over them for more than 300 leagues ..."

One Spanish league is equivalent to 2.6 miles so 300 Spanish leagues is 780 miles. The largest east-west dimension of the Llano Estacado is less than 200 miles and the largest north-south dimension is less than 300 miles. How could Coronado have travelled over them for them for more than 780 miles without finding "their limit"? Leaflet (talk) 00:29, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

a) He didn't have an odometer. b) He didn't say he traveled in a straight line. Barefoot through the chollas (talk) 04:31, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

West Texas Oil Fields

The information noted under Llano Estacado does not mention the oil fields of that area. West Texas (Llano Estacado) at one time was one of the largest oil producing areas in the United States. Andrews, Gaines, Hockley, Yoakum, Ector, Garza, Midland, Winkler, Scurry counties all had abundant drilling, oil production and pipeline transportation. The major oil companies: Shell, Amoco, Mobil, Humble Oil (Exxon), Atlantic-Richfield, Sun Oil, Texaco, Conoco, Phillips, Texas Pacific Coal & Oil had field offices, leased drilling rights, oil production, pipelines, etc. throughout the Llano Estacado areas. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kimmerd30 (talk • contribs) 06:08, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

STAKED PLAINS

While is is possible to make a plausible argument dismissing stories about the the Conquistadors planting stakes as navigational aids, this has no bearing on the point of fact that the Llano Estacado is more commonly known as the Staked Plains, and this fact should be included in the article. I grew up in the area and know the area by both names, as does anyone who grew up there. You will also note that the article cited as as a source for debunking the "Stakes for Navigation" story, The Texas State Historical Association page on "Llano Estacado", also references "Staked Plains" as an alternative name in the first sentence of the article. A google search of "Llano Estacado" yields some 151,000 hits, whereas a google search of "Staked Plains" yields some 806,000 hits, indicating at the very least that "Staked Plains" is indeed in common usage, and most likely used much more commonly than the Spanish "Llano Estacado".

Changes in ideas about the origin of a place name to not change the place name itself.

Arcfixer (talk) 18:26, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, "Staked Plains" is a common name. Lots of place names translated into English from other languages are mistranslations. Anyway, U.S. Geological Survey Geographic Names Information System: Llano Estacado explicitly says "Translation into English is "staked plaines"; reportedly so level that in the old days the pioneers had to drive stakes across it to find their way." (not sure I believe that is the origin of the name--it does say "reportedly" though) Pfly (talk) 18:52, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Good comments. Personally, I take no position on the origin of the name. I'm not sufficiently well informed. As we say in Texas, "It's hard to say, not knowing." Arcfixer (talk) 19:13, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

And an honest appraisal pretty much has to agree, i.e. the original semantic intention of llano estacado remains unknown, at least as reported in this article. One reason is that the as-obvious-as-it-is-sensible advice of the poster below from Barcelona seems to have gone unheeded: "read the contemporary accounts".

We have the speculation of modern English-speaking geologists as sources -- perhaps highly qualified in their field, but no indication of experience, much less expertise, in the historical semantics of Spanish or Hispano-American toponomastics -- geologists perhaps not surprisingly given to seeing the solution as "sensible geologic". Yet we have no findings of qualified philologists, and no direct quotations of Coronado or of other Europeans operating in the area at the appropriate time (Coronado did not write in English, boys and girls, notwithstanding the supposed quotations in the article).

As the article stands now, 9/2021, an honest jury has to return the verdict non liquet, cannot be judged, no matter how many evidence-free peremptory declarations are issued of how "the real interpretation" is "more accurately rendered". Barefoot through the chollas (talk) 17:33, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Meaning of "Llano Estacado"

I am no expert in Spanish idiom. I do note that no expert in Spanish idiom of the time involved has yet been cited for the assertion that the meaning of "estacado" here is essentially "stockaded" or "pallisaded". I do offer a link, http://spanish.about.com/b/2010/05/12/what-does-llano-estacado-mean.htm , at which one putative expert on the language (the person answering the question for the website) notes the relationship of "stockade" to "estacado". But another putative expert (whose qualifications are unknown) asserts that the meaning was idiomatic for a "polo field" (presumably referencing the stakes that serve as the goals for the game).

In light of the considerable disagreement, and in the absence of some conclusive evidence of what Coronado meant, I would recommend that the strong bias in the article towards the meaning "pallisaded plains" be removed, and the several theories left as competing and unresolved. Doug (talk) 00:21, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

The answer that staked, stockaded and pallisadoed all mean virtually the same is correct. Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 02:05, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

On what authority do you assert this? It's lack of referenced authority that makes this an issue.Doug (talk) 01:03, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

I am a native English speaker and can verify that what your answers.com guy answered about these 3 words meaning virtually the same is correct. But if you don't want to believe me or the answers.com guy, we also have these things called 'dictionaries' that are supposed to explain what words mean. As for the article, we can only use etymologies for llano estacado that appear in a reliable published source, but unfortunately that doesn't include user responses on answers.com. Tip: If you find anything about the etymology on "google books", there is a much better chance of adding it to the article as a source. Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 11:48, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

You appear to be missing the point. The issue is not whether or not "stockade" and "pallisade" and "staked" have the same meaning in English. The question is whether or not the use of "Estacado" by Coronado in the time frame involved would have been a reference to "palisaded", or a reference to "polo field", or a reference to "has stakes on it", or something else entirely different.Doug (talk) 20:40, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

You know, is not like Spain has been nuked and the archives in Spain had become fucking dust. Yes, the name was and still is in Spanish "Llanura estacada". And yes, it was because we, Spaniards, planted stakes as navigational aids. If you have doubts, learn Spanish and read the contemporary accounts.

139.47.116.162 (talk) 23:10, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Odd then, that the corresponding article on Spanish Wikipedia is entitled "Llano Estacado". Carlstak (talk) 03:18, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

Meaningless statement

The following line exists in the current version of the article:

For years, the Llano Estacado was isolated from the state government in Austin

What the hell is that supposed to mean? Unless there was a wall built along the top of the escarpments, its meaning is unclear and the verbiage in non-encyclopedic. I'm going to delete it if no one can improve it or clarify its meaning. 98.82.199.243 (talk) 01:57, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Strange Area Comparison

The phrase "Llano Estacado is larger in area than New England, excluding Maine" appears in this article. Well, then it's not larger in area than New England. Why compare it to a region that's only similar in size after you exclude its largest state? There are many better area comparisons that could be made. For example, the Llano Estacado is ~37,000 square miles. Indiana is ~36,000 square miles. I'm changing the comparison to this more relevant example. 63.115.56.33 (talk) 17:16, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Largest mesa in the U.S.? in the world?

The article on Cedaredge, Colorado claims that Grand Mesa is the largest mesa in the world. If Llana Estacado is a larger mesa, the Cedaredge article certainly needs to be corrected, and the L.E. article ought to claim credit to being the largest (in Texas, if not in the U.S. or the world). 75.163.241.167 (talk) 21:40, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

So can anyone back up any of this stuff, or what?

The Llano Estacado article is a vast, barren vista which is interrupted by pitifully few citations to support the content which recedes to the gently undulating horizon. — O'Dea (talk) 21:55, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

Staked should read: stacked

For years I've struggled with how ground could be "staked". Staked to what? But on finally seeing the geologic features of this area, I realize that the translation from the Spanish: estacado, should be STACKED. 172.248.105.201 (talk) 18:48, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

You would have to show some reliable academic sources to support your contention. The literal translation of the Spanish "Llano Estacado" is "staked plain"; it is sometimes translated as "palisaded plain." See The Encyclopedia of North American Indian Wars, 1607–1890: A Political, Social, and Military History. Carlstak (talk) 21:02, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Removing one sentence from In popular culture

"It is possible, but unverifiable, that the region is the origin for the term ‘the sticks’, which refers to a rural, undeveloped area." If an idea is admittedly unverifiable, and if there is no citation, it hardly seems like it belongs on Wikipedia. It sounds like pure speculation. Dgndenver (talk) 14:20, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Definify has a couple ideas for the origin of "the sticks", and they involve the Southeast or the Pacific Northwest, not the Southwest.

https://www.definify.com/word/the_sticks

Possibly derived from 1800s Chinook Jargon stick = “tree”, “forest”, from English “stick”.

1. • 1904 The American Missionary, "A Town of Colored People in Mississippi" by Rev. B.F. Ousley, vol. 58, no. 9 (November, 1904), p. 295:

     Most of the farming at present is done in the "sticks," that is, in the large, dead, and often blackened trunks of trees standing in most of the cultivated fields around. There are but few new towns in the Delta where the "sticks" are not to be seen, and much damage is sometimes done when these old "deadenings," as they are called, are set on fire.

Dgndenver (talk) 14:28, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Image and erroneous description of Guadalupe Mountains should be removed

The Guadalupe Mountains are not part of the Llano Estacado. The description of this photo "Southern edge of the Llano Estacado (upper section of image) and the Guadalupe Mountain range" is incorrect. The image shows the western escarpment of the Guadalupe Mountain Range which runs north-south. The eastern edge of the Guadalupe Range lies aproximately 100 miles west of the Mescalero Escarpment - the defining western edge of the Llano Estacado. 208.180.5.40 (talk) 14:12, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

 Done — removed image. Double-checking with geologic maps, the surface geology of the photographed area is distinct from the Llano Estacado. TheAustinMan^{(Talk ⬩ Edits)} 14:59, 23 September 2024 (UTC)