Talk:Ephraim Chambers
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[edit]Help, The coding for the linking of The Cyclopaedia ... is not working, What have I done wrong? Apwoolrich 19:26, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Got it sorted Apwoolrich 19:36, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)
attendance at any grammar school
[edit]I can find no evidence that Chambers attended grammar school at either Kendal or Heversham. Given the emphasis of grammar schools of the time on Latin and Greek rather than on the trades, it does not seem likely that Chambers would have attended a grammar school before being apprenticed. Therefore, I have removed the claim that he attended the Hevensham Grammar School.
- I've found multiple sources saying Chambers attended grammar school. The DNB article (https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Dictionary_of_National_Biography,_1885-1900/Chambers,_Ephraim) on Chambers says he attended Kendal school (now Kirbie Kendal while Kelly's Directory of Westmoreland (https://www.jstor.org/stable/community.30136531) says that he went to Heversham (now Dallam School). All the sources I found agree that he attended grammar school, there just seems to be disagreement on which school it was.CyclopaediaMyles (talk) 00:09, 18 February 2023 (UTC).
- I was wrong. I now believe that all three Chambers brothers were day students at Heversham. Suck eggs, Kendal. The recitation of "eminent men" you point to in Kelly's Directory for Westmorland (thank you for this resource) actually appears as early as 1818; see: —Nicholas Carlisle, A Concise Description of the Endowed Grammar Schools in England and Wales (London : Baldwin, Cradock, & Joy, 1818), vol. 2, p. 709. Watson's testimony about Chambers at Heversham appeared in 1817: —Richard Watson (father), Anecdotes of the Life of Richard Watson, Bishop of Landaff, ed. Richard Watson (son) (London : T. Cadell & W. Davies, 1817), p. 3. Unfortunately, there are now no reliable guides to Chambers life—even the most recent DNB contains errors—but a chapter on Chambers with a fact-checked overview of his life is expected to appear from a French publisher this summer. With that citable piece in hand, I (or someone else, hint hint) should be able to make some useful changes to this article. Belastro (talk) 03:14, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
- Hi Belastro! That testimony is most likely true. The idea that Chambers attended Kendal seems to have emerged quite early, likely with a Gentleman's Magazine article on Chambers in 1785 (vol 55, p. 674). I'm new to Wikipedia but I'm pretty sure that would constitute original research though. This is beyond the scope of the article, but what errors do you speak of regarding the most recent version DNB? I don't have access to the ODNB because it requires subscription.CyclopaediaMyles (talk) 07:14, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
- The Gentleman's Magazine article does seem to be the earliest printed supposition that Chambers attended the grammar school in Kendal. WRT to the DNB, each edition has claimed that Chambers was married; this is clearly contradicted by his will. This mistake apparently comes from misreading letters from Chambers to one of his sister-in-laws while he was traveling in France in 1738. Belastro (talk) 20:23, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
- How were you able to access his will? If it's not too much trouble, I'd love to be able to access it. I've found several references to it but wasn't able to find it despite my (not very extensive) efforts to find it. You seem quite knowledgeable on Chambers. CyclopaediaMyles (talk) 05:50, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
- As this is turning into a conversation, you should create your talk page, which I think I can see from here, and we can continue. If not, notify me on my talk page. If nothing else, I can paste his will into your page. Belastro (talk) 22:39, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
- How were you able to access his will? If it's not too much trouble, I'd love to be able to access it. I've found several references to it but wasn't able to find it despite my (not very extensive) efforts to find it. You seem quite knowledgeable on Chambers. CyclopaediaMyles (talk) 05:50, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
- The Gentleman's Magazine article does seem to be the earliest printed supposition that Chambers attended the grammar school in Kendal. WRT to the DNB, each edition has claimed that Chambers was married; this is clearly contradicted by his will. This mistake apparently comes from misreading letters from Chambers to one of his sister-in-laws while he was traveling in France in 1738. Belastro (talk) 20:23, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
- Hi Belastro! That testimony is most likely true. The idea that Chambers attended Kendal seems to have emerged quite early, likely with a Gentleman's Magazine article on Chambers in 1785 (vol 55, p. 674). I'm new to Wikipedia but I'm pretty sure that would constitute original research though. This is beyond the scope of the article, but what errors do you speak of regarding the most recent version DNB? I don't have access to the ODNB because it requires subscription.CyclopaediaMyles (talk) 07:14, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
- I was wrong. I now believe that all three Chambers brothers were day students at Heversham. Suck eggs, Kendal. The recitation of "eminent men" you point to in Kelly's Directory for Westmorland (thank you for this resource) actually appears as early as 1818; see: —Nicholas Carlisle, A Concise Description of the Endowed Grammar Schools in England and Wales (London : Baldwin, Cradock, & Joy, 1818), vol. 2, p. 709. Watson's testimony about Chambers at Heversham appeared in 1817: —Richard Watson (father), Anecdotes of the Life of Richard Watson, Bishop of Landaff, ed. Richard Watson (son) (London : T. Cadell & W. Davies, 1817), p. 3. Unfortunately, there are now no reliable guides to Chambers life—even the most recent DNB contains errors—but a chapter on Chambers with a fact-checked overview of his life is expected to appear from a French publisher this summer. With that citable piece in hand, I (or someone else, hint hint) should be able to make some useful changes to this article. Belastro (talk) 03:14, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
attendance at Heversham?
[edit]The reference to Humber's book is not a citation: it lacks the page number where this information can be found. If the anonymous editor who added this reference can add the page that tells us that Chambers did indeed attend that school, great. WorldCat does not show this book held by any library, although it may be available in libraries in Cumbria, some 4500 miles from my house. In general, I don't think that an editor should refer to a book as a source for some point of information if it is difficult or expensive for readers and other editors to verify that that source does supply that information at that cited place (unless, of course, there is no practical alternative). Here, I would be happy to see the relevant passage(s) in Humber's book quoted on this talk page, with the page(s) noted. Belastro (talk) 03:04, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
- I haven't found that exact book but I did find a source stating he went to Heversham. https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/community.30136531.pdf?refreqid=excelsior%3A2b6ae31f3b5c67b08386c666412dc996&ab_segments=0%2Fbasic_phrase_search%2Fcontrol&origin=&acceptTC=1 (page 72) I also have other sources that say he went to Kendal school (above comment).CyclopaediaMyles (talk) 00:12, 18 February 2023 (UTC)